FAQ: Bakfiets Cargobike
Here’s a rather random collection of handy things to know about the Bakfiets.nl Cargobike in FAQ form. There’s no particular order (yet) and I’ll just keep adding to the list as I think of new questions. Maybe I’ll even organize them and add photos eventually.
Note that most of the commentary below is geared toward the intended uses of the Bakfiets Cargobike; family transport. The bike is hugely versatile but carrying multiple little kids, groceries and household stuff is what it was designed for. In Holland where a couple thousand per year are sold 99% are used as kid carriers. Of course even family Cargobikes eventually get pressed into service for other purposes: carry building materials, taking the recycling out…
I’m about to set off for my first (test) ride. How do I ride this thing?
Riding a 260cm long bicycle with a box in front and the front wheel steered through a linkage is strange at first… for about 30 seconds, until your mind/body get used to it. After that you forget why it ever seemed difficult.
Here’s how to best deal with those first wobbly meters:
How do I carry a baby with a Bakfiets Cargobike?
In Europe the standard baby carrier for the car is the Maxi-Cosi. In fact they seem to have something of a monopoly on these. Unlike most of the other makes I’ve seen (especially the American infant car seats) the Maxi Cosi is quite compact and it fits nicely into the box of the Cargobike. If the baby is an only child the Maxi Cosi (or equivalent) can be strapped into the bottom of the box of a Cargobike Long, with the baby facing the rider. Do use some sort of pad/pillow/cushion/blanket between MC and the wooden box to soften the ride. Of course this has to be done properly so somebody with either experience here or with good mechanical skills should fit it.
WorkCycles makes a handy Maxi-Cosi carrier that fits all Long Cargobikes and also leaves room in the box for other cargo and kids. (see below)
A MC will also fit into a Cargobike Short, but it’ll take up the entire box and cushioning the system is much trickier. If you haven’t bought the bike yet, just get the Long version since you’ll need it anyway if a second child comes along.
How do I carry both an infant in a Maxi Cosi and toddler(s) on the bench?
Firstly you need a Cargobike Long to do this. If you mount the Maxi-Cosi directly on the floor of the box there will not be enough room behind for the legs of kids on the bench. As a result the kids will put their feet on baby brother or sister in the Maxi Cosi making for an unhappy ride.
Most shops install a Steco Buggy Mee in the box, as suggested by Bakfiets.nl. This steel-framed system holds the Maxi-Cosi securely but it unfortunately also takes up most of the volume in the box.
WorkCycles developed its own solution a number of years ago. Its a quite simple “bridge” with straps and a cushion. This Maxi-Cosi holder takes up little space in the box and holds the Maxi-Cosi somewhat higher creating just enough legroom for the kids sitting on the bench behind.
How can I safely carry children too big for a Maxi-Cosi but not yet ready to sit upright on the bench?
This is a common problem here in Holland, where babies often outgrow their infant car carriers by seven or eight months, before they sit well enough to be secure on the wooden bench. We take an old Bobike Mini bike child seat (the one that fits behind the handlebars), saw off its legs and modify it to fit on the Cargobike bench. This provides much more support for a small child, yet still leaves room for an older child on the bench. Two of these seats will fit side-by-side on the bench for twins.
My kids are too big for the harnesses and/or bench and/or canopy. What can I do?
Its time for the kids to ride their own bikes. They’ve been free loading for long enough!
Can I take adult passengers in the Bakfiets Cargobike?
Its not the point of the bike but sure, why not? Its a great way to show grandma around town, to ride your bride into the sunset, or to film a running race. Just don’t seat adults on the Cargobike’s kiddy bench because they’ll damage it at the hinges. For occasional use just put some cushions or blankets in the bottom of the box. If you’ll be doing this regularly you can fabricate a suitable bench for your passengers.
Why does the Stabilo parking stand swing further forward than is needed?
The Stabilo stand is self-adjusting so that on most reasonably flat surfaces all four legs will contact the ground. The more weight one puts on the bike the more stably it will stand.
Though it seems a little strange there’s really no need for anything to prevent the stand from swinging further forward. Just flip the latch to let the stand fall and pull the bike back enough to roll it onto the four stand legs. Locking the rear wheel lock adds extra security like a parking brake and the 12 gauge spokes won’t be damaged from the force. Pulling the bike further back won’t do any harm but the bike won’t stand stably that way… so don’t do it.
What’s the handiest way to raise the Stabilo parking stand before cycling?
With lots of weight in the box it’ll take a firm shove to roll the Bakfiets off its parking stand.
My Cargobike has begun to wobble on its Stabilo stand. How can I make it stable again?
The hinged connection between the vertical and horizontal legs of the Stabilo stand wears and loosens up with use. This causes the bike to sit lower, perhaps not evenly. On a convex parking surface both wheels may touch the ground causing the stand to “hang”.
We have various ways of tightening up the hinged connection between the legs:
How do I get the kids in and out of the canopy?
Our favored method for installing the tent/canopy is to first set the rear legs in place, then set the front leg on the block and secure the front elastics (or snaps if you have a Bakfiets.nl canopy instead of the WorkCycles/Clarijs canopy). The last step is to just pull the rear elastics onto their holders.
To get the kid(s) in and out just remove one of the rear elastics and open that side like a “gullwing” door”.
Can I seat two kids on the optional second bench?
Well, its not recommended but many people do it anyway. You’ll need to drill new holes and fit a second harness. With more weight on the bench its advisable to fix it to the box permanently with a few screws.
With two kids on both the front and rear benches and one in a child seat on the rear carrier one can carry five children with the Cargobike. Whether we recommend it or not is quite irrelevant; I’ve already seen a number of tough moms doing it.
What is really the maximum load capacity of the Cargobike?
The advertised limit of 80kg in the box and 25kg on the rear carrier is conservative. The 25kg figure for the rear carrier is actually an EU legal limit for rear carriers while the Cargobike’s carrier is much, much stronger. Carrying an adult passenger here is no problem if you have adequate tire pressure and a rider confident in handling the load.
The 80kg front load rating is based more on the handling characteristics of the bike than strength issues. A handful of the first Cargobike frames broke as a result of a poorly placed reinforcement That’s long since been corrected and about 10,000 Bakfiets.nl Cargobikes have been ridden daily with hardly a frame failure.
If you load a Cargobike very heavily you’ll note that the steering becomes rubbery and sluggish. The bike is unpleasant to ride and your reaction times will be poor. That’s not safe though sometimes we just have to get something heavy from point A to B and we do it anyway. You can minimize the slow steering by pumping the tires (especially the front) up to their maximum pressure, and riding very defensively. Remember: your braking distance is also going to increase considerably.
Somewhere around 100-125kg the steering really becomes too stiff to be safe. Be careful.
Help! I’ve got a flat tire. How do I get the wheel out with the chaincase, gear hub, chain tensioners, roller brake, jacket protectors etc etc?
Silly foreigner! You don’t need to take the wheel out to fix a flat. Just open the tire on the non-drivetrain side, find the puncture (and cause of puncture), patch it, and put it back together again. You only need to remove the wheel when there’s no more room on the tube for another patch or its time for a new tire. Given that Schwalbe Marathons don’t flat easily and wear like iron that’s not very often.
What are those weird tire valves on my Cargobike and how do I use them?
They’re called “Dunlop” or “Blitz” valves and city/utility bikes in most of Europe have them. They’re not better or worse, just normal here. Of course there are special pumps for them, but a pump intended for Presta (French) valves will work OK too.
The correct pump for Dunlop valves is quite handy though because it has a sprung clip to hold the head on the valve while pumping.
Using the Dunlop valve is easy: just pump to fill and unscrew the top to let the air out… which you seldom need to do.
Note: Cargobikes we’ve shipped to the USA for the past year or so have all been fitted with auto-type “schraeder” valves.
Why are the brake levers pointed so far downward on my Cargobike?
That’s so that they don’t smack your kids in the head when you turn. Please leave them that way if you carry kids on the bench.
What’s the best way to lock my Cargobike?
A quality hardened chain with 10mm square links and an integrated lock is enough to keep away all but the most determined thieves and enables you to lock to a fixed object in almost all situations. The rear wheel is so difficult to remove that locking it is quite unnecessary. If possible set the bike next to a pole to lock the main boom tube to a pole. Wrap/wind the chain around as necessary to avoid any slack.
In really high theft areas the front wheel can occasionally get stolen. What a thief can do with a super heavy duty 20″ rollerbrake wheel is another story. If you’re worried about this you can loop a small lock through the front wheel and fender. Even better is to bore two large holes in the front of the wooden box (use a hole saw) so that you can run the lock through. This is serious overkill for most locations.
People always toss their trash in my bike’s box while its parked. How can I prevent this?
You could stand next to your bike and yell at every lowlife who does that but this will probably get old pretty quickly. More pleasant is to put the cargo cover on the box when you leave it. This has two added benefits:
Is it possible to bring the saddle a little lower? I’m not quite tall enough to ride the Cargobike comfortably.
The Cargobike has a 53cm seat tube so we do occasionally have a customer who’s not quite tall enough to get some toes on the ground while seated. Fortunately there are a couple tricks to win about 6cm here:
WorkCycles Cargobikes come with a microadjust seat post which is handy but sets the saddle rails a minimum of a couple cm above the seat post clamp. Other Cargobikes have a steel saddle clamp on a straight seat post. Begin with a straight seat post and steel saddle clamp but flip the clamp mechanism upside down to sit inside the saddle. This will enable lowering the saddle about 5cm.
If that’s not enough you can also swap the saddle for one with a lower height from the rails. There isn’t much to be gained here but a couple saddles such as the Selle Italia Freedom Gel are about 2cm lower than the saddle originally fitted.
I find it difficult to ride without hands on the Bakfiets Cargobike. How can I do this?
You can’t.
How do I fix a flat tire with all that complicated stuff around the wheels?
Silly foreigner! There’s generally no need to remove the wheel to repair a flat:
What regular checks and maintenance should an owner undertake so as not to become a pain to their bike shop come servicing time?
Not much really.
Tires need air.
The most important thing that many owners forget is to put air in the tires. Even tires that have never had a puncture have some porosity and slowly lose pressure. Especially on a heavily loaded bike properly inflated tires will ride much better and last much longer. Don’t worry about precision – just keep them pumped up.
Chains need oil.
Checking and lubricating your chain is easy and easy to forget since its hidden inside the chain case. Unlike a bike with an exposed chain the Bakfiets Cargobike can be ridden and stored for months in wet weather without touching the chain, but eventually some oil will still be needed. Depending on how much use the bike sees you should occasionally pop open the little hatch at the back of the chain case (twist carefully with a large screwdriver between the two tabs at the back to open). Prop the rear wheel up with a block or hang it from the ceiling with the front supported by the parking stand. Then you can pour oil on the chain while slowly turning the wheel or crank. Any good lubrication oil will work and excess will just drip off into the case. A couple times per year is sufficient.
Chains need adjustment
If you’re handy you can check the chain tension while the case hatch is open. To adjust the tension you need to loosen the axle nuts and brake reaction arm and then adjust with the axle tugs. If you’re not handy or if this sounds intimidating just leave it to a good bike shop. A loose chain is far less of a problem than a too tight chain.
Gear adjustment
Perhaps the only critical adjustment on the bike is the cable tension for the gear hub. Properly adjusted a Shimano gear hub will run smoothly for a long time. Ridden badly enough out of adjustment that it jumps out of gear it can be quickly destroyed leading to very expensive repairs. The adjustment is generally quite simple but Bakfiets Cargobikes have been built with a number of gear hubs. You’ll have to find the info for your particular hub. A couple notes:
Does the box require any treatment to preserve it?
The box of the Bakfiets.nl Cargobike is made from “betonplex” a highly water resistant impregnated plywood used primarily for molding concrete. Its tough stuff. Nonetheless water can seep in wherever the finish has been compromised such as the edges, joints, where accessories have been installed or where its damaged. Protecting it is simple: Paint such vulnerable points with thick paint in a suitable color. This is done at the factory, but adding more after installing accessories or repairing damage is very helpful.
Also important is to protect the box with the cargo cover. It might be quality betonplex… but its still wood.
My rack elastics have died. Where can I get replacements?
Yeah, the original elastics (“snelbinders”) aren’t the greatest. The Bibia Quattro Strong elastics are much better. They have four strands instead of three and each is much thicker and stronger too. WorkCycles has them, as do many good bike shops in the Netherlands. They come in colors and they’re not very expensive either.
Can I get replacements for the Stabilo parking stand feet?
Yes, not only can you get replacements… you can now fit much better replacements. The original parking stand feet were actually crutch feet. The new feet are meant to fit the square legs and they stay put and last longer. Yep, you guessed it: WorkCycles has them in stock.
My Cargobike has an Axa HR tire dynamo and its rubber running wheel is broken/cracked/missing/worn out. Are these replaceable?
Of course and you know by now where you can get them.
How can I gear the Cargobike for use in a hilly area?
Let’s first put this into perspective: This bike will never be ideal for carrying heavy loads in very hilly terrain. In fact carrying considerable loads up bigs hills is plain old hard work with any bike.
But rolling terrain and small hills as a part of one’s daily route on a Bakfiets Cargobike will work fine for the moderately fit and motivated rider. WorkCycles fits 8 speed Shimano hub gears to all of its bikes and that already provides quite a wide range of gears. However the overall gear ratio can be lowered (or raised) by changing the rear cog. The bike is equipped stock with a 17 tooth, thus a 20 tooth cog will lower all of the ratios by 18%. That’ll provide some more hill climbing ease without making the bike annoying to ride on flat terrain. You will spin out of the 8th gear with a tailwind or small downhill.
We’ve also tried a 23T rear cog. In Holland it was quite unpleasant, requiring us to ride almost entirely in the 7th and 8th gears. However the bike’s owner in England was very happy with the gear range. We suspect she rides very, veerryy sloooowwwllly.
Can I fit a Rohloff 14 speed hub to a Bakfiets Cargobike?
No. Not without extensive modifications that would cost about as much as the bike.
Can I fit a Schlumpf Mountain Drive 2-speed crankset to a Bakfiets Cargobike?
Yes, but it will be a lot of work, very costly and you’ll lose the chain case. You’ll likely also damage your internal gear hub as the low gear of the Mountain Drive puts enormous stresses on the hub gears. Only the special Sram P5 Cargo hub is rated as strong enough for use with the Mountain Drive and we don’t fit these for other reasons (see “gear adjustment” above).
Is it possible to add electric assist to my bakfiets?
Yes, it is possible but we haven’t yet found a system that provides a worthwhile benefit for a reasonable expense and with minimal downsides. Don’t get me wrong here: I believe that electric motor assisted bicycles will play a great role in the future. However they’re just getting started and there are a number of hurdles to overcome before electric assist becomes viable for a heavier load carrying such as the Bakfiets Cargobike. When that happens we’ll also look at how the Cargobike itself needs to be changed to make IT suitable for use in the situations power assist will enable.
General notes on pedalec systems anno 2008:
How would we fit the motor to the Cargobike?
Clever Cycles in Portland, OR, USA has built a handful of “Stoke Monkey” equipped bakfietsen. It does work though Clever has decided, for various reasons, not to pursue the stoked bakfietsen commercially.
Update October 2008: An factory developed electric assist system for the Bakfiets Cargobike is in the works. Its a fairly simple but effective system with a 250W front hub motor and battery mounted bayonette style in a special rear carrier. There are still a few issues to work out and delivery date is not yet known. I’d guess Spring 2009, but that’s no promise.
Update April 2009: The factory developed electric assist system for the Bakfiets Cargobike is available. We’ve heard other dealers complaining about “teething problems” so WorkCycles is still testing this and a competitive system before selling them to customers.
My Cargobike has begun to shimmy at certain speeds. How can I fix this?
Such a shimmy is a harmonic so it occurs at certain speed ranges. We see it occasionally though thus far never in dangerous levels as can occur on racing bikes. Its nonetheless very annoying and fixing it can be tricky.
Can I fit disk brakes to a Bakfiets Cargobike?
No. Do you plan to be going 80km/hr with kids in the box or something?
Beginning in July 2008, all Bakfiets Cargobikes distributed through WorkCycles have been equipped with a upgraded “Shimano IM70″ rollerbrake with a substantial heatsink, cooling fins and a higher leverage ratio. These brakes are more powerful and consistent than the standard rollerbrakes used previously and also more resistant to fade during longer hills.
The new brake can be fitted to the rear of all existing Cargobikes, but the front forks of most Cargobikes built until about 2007 lack the tab necessary to fit the IM70′s external cable stop. In other words if you have an earlier bike and upgrading the brakes is important to you it will require replacing the front fork (which is not such a big deal, really).
What is the maximum speed of a Bakfiets Cargobike?
An ex bike racer (and generally hard-core sportsman) friend in New Hampshire, USA claims to have achieved 80km/h on a downhill… with two kids in the box, himself tucked behind the canopy as an aerodynamic fairing. This was about 4 years ago on a Cargobike Short, entirely undocumented and certainly not recommended. Regardless of the hyperbole, this guy is one of my best friends since childhood and he’s done far crazier things so I don’t doubt its approximate veracity.
August 18th, 2008 at 13:33
Excellent stuff, Henry. Great tips on the rear cogs.
Here’s a few questions I have:
What regular checks and maintenance should an owner undertake so as not to become a pain to their bike shop come servicing time? Does the box require any treatment to preserve it?
Where can I get a replacement removeable section for the chainguard? The UK distributor says he’s not been able to get one in the past, and kindly plastic-welded the broken tabs on mine. These have now failed again, and it seems wasteful to junk the whole thing.
Do where can I get alloy bodied pedals from? I had the old plastic ones, which cracked. They’ve been replaced with some rubber Union pedals, but I’d like some of the nice alloy bodied ones I’ve seen one other bakfietsen.
Where can I get replacement elastic straps for the carrier?
I am impressed you’ve tested up to 125Kg. I put my 95Kg friend in the box, and was too scared to ride away.
August 18th, 2008 at 15:05
Hi,
I’ve added answers to most of your questions. The others are best answered here:
The chaincase is only sold as a complete unit but its not very expensive. We stock them at WorkCycles. The new plastic parts can be installed on your steel mounts in a couple minutes.
The standard pedals are pretty nasty and WorkCycles bikes get better, alloy bodied pedals. Yep, we have those in stock too.
Mind you, I’m not suggesting that one rides with 125kg but we have done it without ill effects. I just wanted to give an idea of where the limits are.
September 5th, 2008 at 17:18
When my bakfiets gets going above about 18 mph (29 kph), the front wheel often begins to shimmy back and forth rapidly, slowly building in violence until the whole bike is shaking.
I have found that when I remove all of my weight from the handle bars the phenomenon stops.
September 6th, 2008 at 22:10
Kevin,
Thanks for the reminder about this tricky point. I’ve added some info about fixing Cargobike shimmies near the bottom of the FAQ.
December 11th, 2008 at 14:05
Henry,
Do you know if the factory electric assist option will be similar to what v-fiets is offering? I’m assuming it will be available to retro-fit in older bakfiets?
thanks
Dan
December 11th, 2008 at 22:20
Dan,
We’ll be offering a more integrated and thoroughly developed system than the V-fiets. The front wheel will have the same IM70 roller brake, heavy-duty spokes and rim. The battery will be nicely integrated into the rear carrier.
Retrofitting this kit will be possible but expensive and requiring extensive work. The special rear carrier will require removing the horizontal carrier reinforcement on a Cargobike 1 frame.
Of course this will be a EU legal system, meaning that its a strict “pedalec” and limited to 250W power. You won’t be speeding up mountain passes… which is just as well since even the recently improved brakes aren’t suitable for descending said passes.
December 13th, 2008 at 04:21
Henry,
I don’t need to speed up the hills. I just want to not be a sweaty mess at the top. Ironically, giving all the worry about braking on the descents, I think electric assist will be safer on the uphills. I find my steering gets pretty wobbly when I’m grinding up a hill in 1st gear. This gets a little unnerving when there are parked cars on your right and a constant stream of cars on your left. I try to pick routes where the uphill parts aren’t on busy streets but sometimes it’s unavoidable.
As I’m sure you know we have a lot more hills and a lot fewer bike paths/lanes here in the States!
Dan
December 13th, 2008 at 18:08
Dan,
I honestly just don’t know whether the system, or any other EU legal 250W system will have the torque necessary to do what you need. That’s simply because I haven’t tried it. I’ve only ridden the electric assist system in flat Hollland.
You might not realize that lived the first 35 years of my life in the states: New York, Bay Area CA, Colorado, VT… so I’m quite familiar with the concepts of hills and scary auto traffic. Usually one can avoid the serious hills in most cities (unless your destination is on top of one). But I’m still hesitant about recommending a bike of this format for such a place because some people are smart and responsible, and others are just stupid and irresponsible; They’ll point their bakfiets, kids and all, down a steep SF hill and then blame me for the inevitable results.
Todd at Clever Cycles has written quite a bit about his (considerable) experiences riding the Bakfiets Cargobike in hillier terrain. His conclusion is essentially that putting much more powerful brakes on this type of bike (also other long-wheelbase, front-loader bikes) doesn’t solve the problem. A stronger front brake introduces the danger of skidding the front wheel. A stronger rear brake would be better but brings its own weight transfer limitations. That’s why they chose not to offer the Stoke Monkey for the Bakfiets Cargobike.
December 28th, 2008 at 00:32
Hello
You wrote, it’s not possible to fit a Rohloff speed hub on a Cargobike. Could explain, why ?
regards
Laurent (Paris)
December 30th, 2008 at 19:39
Laurent, To be more specific: Anything is possible but fitting a Rohloff to a Bakfiets Cargobiike would be a project requiring considerable modifications including fabricating and soldering disk or rim brake mounts to the frame and subsequent refinishing. Its likely that there is inadequate space for a disk brake in the rear frame, and a rim brake would require a different rim as well. The chaincase will no longer fit and the crankset must be replaced. I doubt that the rohloff hub will accept 12 or 13 gauge spokes making the rear wheel lock inadvisable since it’ll break thinner spokes. There are few rims, however, that will accept 13 gauge spokes because the ferrules are too small for the nipples.
So, yes, for the serious fabricator, such a project is possible. But for the normal person who justb wants to ride the bike fiting the Rohloff would cost several thousant Euro and require a very skilled and patient mechanic to perform the research and modifications. The warranty on the bike would, of course, also be voided by all of this.
Fitting a Schlumpf Mountain Drive and accepting that you mightl occasionally destroy the rear hub innards would be much simpler and cheaper.
-Henry
February 9th, 2009 at 16:33
“Todd at Clever Cycles has written quite a bit about his (considerable) experiences riding the Bakfiets Cargobike in hillier terrain.”
Henry, could you point me in the direction of this on Clever Cycles website, I can’t find it.
Thanks.
February 9th, 2009 at 16:58
Joe, Sorry I don’t have specific links but I know it’s a topic that comes up periodically on their blog and perhaps Flickr pages too. You could contact Clever to discuss it.
June 5th, 2009 at 02:47
there’s some brake discussion here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/2828893180/ . see also http://portlandsagwagon.com/Site/Blog/Entries/2008/9/7_Zoo_Bomber_Down.html
July 17th, 2009 at 14:32
My apologies if this question has been asked and answered before but looked around the website and can’t seem to find it:
What do bakfiets riders do when their onboard passengers want to sleep?
The reason I ask is that I have two small children who I believe would absolutely love a bakfiets. I like the idea too and am particularily keen on taking them out on day trips in a bakfiets. This would invariably mean them falling asleep as some point along the trip and looking at the ‘bak’ part of a bakfiets, it doesn’t seem to be particularly conducive to onboard naps.
I would prefer my children to be buckled in while they nap leading to my question:
What do parents with a bakfiets and small children do when the inevitable happens and the latter start falling asleep?
Let them doze sitting upright leading to the inevitable head roll?
Use a cushion to try and minimise the offending head roll?
Simply unbuckle them and let them sleep on the floor of the bak?
Any advice would be appreciated as I prefer the handling characteristics of a two wheeled family bike although as far as I can ascertain, a three wheeled family trike such as the Winther Kangaroo has a substantial advantage in that the seats recline allowing for a good onboard sleep and hence happier and less irritable children.
July 17th, 2009 at 15:16
Anthony,
Good question. Here in the NL lots of people ride with sleeping kids in their bakfietsen. I wouldn’t worry too much about whether the kids are strapped in or not because the belts are not there for energy absorbing purposes such as in a high speed vehicle (a car). The main function of the belts in a bakfiets are to keep unruly kids from doing stupid things. That’s why you see that many families ignore the belts after a while.
Some pillows and blankets in the box would make the ride more comfortable and prevent bonking heads in case of bumps or unintended actions.
July 17th, 2009 at 19:16
sethidious,
My daughter (3) sleeps quite comfortably in the bottom of the box. Usually, though not always, with blankets underneath. It’s quite safe and as Henry says, the seat belts are more for keeping them under control than actually strapped in.
October 31st, 2010 at 12:00
Hi Henry
Thanks for the FAQ it really shed a lot of light on this matter and since it’s a little more expensive then your average bike it’s good to know more. And let me tell you the more I know the more I want to buy one.
I just wanted to point out that there’s one more way to fit a toddler and an infant in the bak. I found this on Bakfiets.nl website and it looks like you can do it in a short and long version. http://bakfiets.nl/nl/informatie/download/15/Montagehulp%20Maxi-Cosi%20babymee%20op%20het%20bankje.pdf
November 29th, 2010 at 01:58
Can you let me know how bakfiets owners in the Netherlands typically deal with the snowy winter months? Can you get snow tyres for both sizes of tyre, or do people either slog it out on standard tyres or stop riding their bakfiets? I’m just wondering how I will deal with getting the kids to school in the UK if the snow comes as much this year as it did last.Thanks
November 30th, 2010 at 04:09
Daniel,
My (then pregnant) wife and I rode our own bakfiets with child last snowy winter and we were surprised to find that it was much better than we’d expected. In fact we vastly preferred riding it to our city bike, especially with a child aboard. This seemed to be a function of the long wheelbase, fattish tires and low center of gravity. My wife did fall once but neither she nor our son in the bak, under sturdy canopy was harmed.
To qualify this, it snowed very frequently but never more than perhaps ten centimeters. Cycling on any bike with children aboard in more snow than that is probably not very practical. A three wheeler would be safer but it would be quite a slog.
We discussed and investigated snow tires but didn’t have any takers. For the rear 26″ tire there are certainly a couple options but for the 20″ front wheel there might not be… and the front is more important on this bike.
One trick that definitely helps the handling of a lightly loaded Cargobike in slippery conditions is adding some weight to the front of the bak. A 10 or 20kg sandbag helps the front wheel track better, and probably makes much more difference than the hassle of swapping tires twice a year.
November 30th, 2010 at 13:26
Henry. Thanks for your response. Schwalbe do make a tyre in 406 which would fit the front on our Bakfiets – see http://www.tinyurl.com/29ovblh – but I haven’t seen anything in 590 that would fit the rear. Based upon your experience though I am guessing that this may not be the biggest issue we would face anyway. It is more likely in the UK that we would be able to get to nursery school only to find on arrival that it has been closed due to a few cm of snow – we British have every kind of weather but don’t seem to be able to cope with any of them. Regards. Daniel
November 30th, 2010 at 14:03
Daniel,
Sure the 42mm Marathon Winter is a little smaller than the standard 47mm but would work fine. The Workcycles Cargobike actually has a 47-559 rear tire, which is also offered in the Marathon Winter. The bike sold under the Bakfiets.nl name has a 590mm tire for which very few tires are available.
But much of the UK has about the same conditions as Holland, so I think you’ll be fine without. Do let some air out of the tires to soften them when it snows, though.
December 2nd, 2010 at 07:54
Oh, I’m so glad you guys are discussing winter tires! That’s actually precisely why I came online today. We live in Austria, on top of a hill, no less, and things were going just swimmingly with our Workcycles Cargobike despite crazy autumn rainstorms until it started snowing (and snowing and snowing!) this week.
I’m rather loathe to ditch the bike for the rest of winter, so have been trying to figure out options. The afternoons aren’t so bad, but when every thing’s iced over in the morning or if a snowstorm hits and the plows haven’t made it up the hill yet, we run into problems with the standard set up (no spills yet, though). We’ve only got one little guy in the box, so there’d be space to carry a small snow shovel if nothing else works, I guess.
My husband’s proposed embedding spikes in the tires. I suggested chains, but those don’t appear to exist. We did come across the Marathon Winter tires which look promising, especially since it looks like they get the plows out around here within 24 hours after a snowstorm’s hit. Is there anything else (other tires brands, etc) we might look into, for comparison’s sake? Otherwise, I guess we’ll give these Marathon Winters a shot and see how it goes.
April 9th, 2011 at 14:06
I have had my Bakfiets for just under a year. I rode it through a Minnesota Winter. Now I can see the chain does look a bit rusty. I fear I may have to do more than just popping open the back of the chain case. Maybe I need to take the whole case off and use a WD-40 type substance to get the rust and grime off? Then use a proper chain lube.
Any ideas?
Also, after this Winter the back disk thing on the back tire around the hub is loose. Should I try to tighten this myself? Or take it to the shop?
All Winter I had to knock off a lot of ice and snow build up. It took a toll on the Bakfiets I think.
April 12th, 2011 at 11:46
Anja,
Removing the chain case on your Cargobike is actually very simple: Use a screwdriver to snap open the rear hatch. Loosen the four screws that secure it and carefully pull the top and bottom halves off the chain.
Clean the chain with you favorite method and lubricate it very liberally. Don’t worry about using too much since it’ll just drip into the chain case. This is a good opportunity to adjust the chain tension as well (by moving the axle fore and aft with the 10mm axle adjusters at the back). Just make sure that the chain is never pulled taught even in the tightest point in the rotation of crank and wheel.
Putting the case back on is just the reverse but a little trickier since you have to align the little “fingers” and tabs that hold the two parts together. Once in place secure (not too tightly!) the two rear screws through the little stainless steel bracket, and then the front two screws.
The disk thing on the rear wheel must be your rollerbrake. These always float somewhat so I doubt anything is wrong there. Happy cycling!
June 3rd, 2011 at 14:52
Hi there,
about hilly riding, I need to transport two (currently) small children uphill for about 3.5 miles. The first 1.5 miles is a 1 in 10 long drag and the rest is up and downy gradually making it’s way uphill, but mostly no more steep than 1 in 10.
Do you think the cargobike would be suitable for this or is it just too hilly? Would an electric assist be worth considering? Or is this kind of bike out of the question for the kind of terrain I’ve described?
Many thanks, y:)
June 3rd, 2011 at 15:15
Yvonne,
I’m fairly sure that riding an unassisted Cargoibike with two kids there would be too heavy a job for all but occasional sport… an extreme sport to be precise. Even when you do make it up that hill going downhill will bring it’s own problems; Neither the brakes nor the steering geometry is designed for this type of riding
We have been building Cargobikes equipped with our own motor system and in mostly flat Netherlands they’re working very well. But I cannot honest say whether they’d be appropriate for riding in your terrain. I rather doubt it actually but perhaps one of our dealers in a hillier locale would have a more expert opinion. I’d recommend looking through the site and blog of Clever Cycles.
Some people prefer long tail type bikes for riding with kids in hillier terrain. You do lose the weather protection, ability to carry babies and having the kids in front of you. The bike’s handling dynamics though are better for hills. The Stoke Monkey motor system that Clever offers will certainly help you ride that long tail up nearly any hill.
June 7th, 2011 at 11:29
I am considering either tricycle (e.g. Nihola, although I personally don’t like the style of the frame), or long version Cargobike. I have read up on why you promote two-wheelers as nicer and easier to ride and I am (almost) convinced.
However: I am based in Copenhagen and here tricycles completely dominate the market for child-transport bikes (you see a lot of dedicated Bullit owners though.. but this is not my cup of tea). Given how similar Amsterdam and Copenhagen are (in terms of terrain, climate and bike-infrastructure), I wonder about the reason for the total dominance of tricycles, if indeed the 2-wheelers have such striking advantages. Does this have historical/cultural reasons? Are people in Copenhagen somehow mindlessly buying what everybody else buys? Are there any real advantages of a tricycle vs. a 2-wheeler?
Overall there is a annoying trend in Cph. for impractical but fancy looking lifestyle-assescoir bikes, so I would not necessarily assume rational choices to be at work.
June 7th, 2011 at 12:11
Hi Tobias,
I’ve always wondered about this too, and with exactly the same reasoning that you stated above. If anything I would think the small differences between the cities would favor the opposite: Copenhagen is somewhat more open and cyclists ride faster so a two wheeler should be better. Amsterdam is more compact and the cycling pace is more relaxed so one should theoretically see more three-wheelers than in Copenhagen.
After having sold and serviced thousands of both types for eight years and riding a Cargobike several times a week for a couple years I’m only more convinced that a good two-wheeler is better for most families. Recently we’ve been doing family bike tours most weekends with our two little ones in the Cargobike. We often ride 60-70km per day, to the beach, in the woods, through the hilly dunes, on gravel and dirt paths… It’s wonderful but I can’t even imagine doing anything of the kind on a three-wheeler. See for example: http://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/2011/04/11/bakfiets-touring-with-baby-and-toddler/
Or: http://www.flickr.com/photos/henryinamsterdam/5791725544/in/photostream
Indeed the only answers I can think of have more to do with history, people making conservative choices and fashion trends.
June 7th, 2011 at 12:34
Right! The most you see in Cph. is the odd ride to the beach with the family (in a tricycle).. 60-70km is out of the question. It might however be much easier to balance your caffee late and iPhone while stylishly cruising your Triobike mono
Seriously: I guess it is what social science calls “path dependence” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_dependence
Otherwise: Congratulations to your blog! I read through MANY blogs and this is by far the most helpful combination of practical advice, honest and constructive opinion and open discussion (especially for families with small kids) I have so far encountered.
June 7th, 2011 at 20:58
Tobias, Thanks very much for the high compliments.
Really, the only trikes I actually enjoy riding are the big, classic bakfietsen; 150kg of steel, mahogany, rubber and leather. The big, fat tires and leaf springs smooth the ride out and there’s just something magical about powering such a beast with your own legs> I even sometimes take the kids (and wife) in them: http://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/2010/07/28/stretch-limo-bakfiets-ride/
In any case after years of pondering this two versus three wheel, netherlands versus denmark question I’m fairly sure we’ve reached the correct conclusion: The difference is not rooted in practical considerations. It’s just a matter of taste and following what the neighbors did.
July 12th, 2011 at 16:00
Hey!
Congratulations about your blog… is very helpful!
I have some questions too…
I live in Amsterdam and i took a dog,who is quite big and heavy. Now is 6 months but when he will be an adult he will weight almost 70 kg.
I have an old Cargo bike but the box is rotten. Where can i find another one and how approximately will cost?I had quite hard time to find one on the net.
Can I find the pieces to fix it on my own ?
I think that a Cargo trike(2 wheels in the front) will be more suitable for him. Can I modify a Cargo bike to a Cargo trike ?is that possible?and where?
Thanks in advance.
August 22nd, 2011 at 11:49
Hi there, Great website, have just ‘wasted’ half an evening! We have a bakfiets here in Wellington NZ, which we brought with us from Amsterdam. It is a FF bike (I wasn’t aware of your brand when living in NL!) and I’ve blown up the SRAM P5 hub biking up some of the hills around here. It is just the standard P5 hub (not the Cargo). I understand the P5 Cargo may be more durable, but note your comment regarding the plastic shift boxes being a weak point. Do you have a view on a suitable hub that would be more durable than the SRAM P5 which would be worth considering as a replacement? Do you know whether the Shimano Alfine hubs are up for the heavy loads? Many thanks, Edward.
August 22nd, 2011 at 12:01
Hi Edward,
Thanks! Though we don’t yet have a lot of experience with them our suspicion is that the NuVinci will turn out to be the strongest internally geared hub for bikes like this. I have one in my own bike and really enjoy it. It’s very smooth and the range is quite wide. We could build and ship a wheel if interesting.that’s
The Shimano Alfine is a good hub but disk brake only so it won’t fit your bikes. Same story for the Rohloff 14sp. We’ve simply given up on Sram hubs; The design and quality has diminished to the point where we won’t install them anymore.
August 22nd, 2011 at 12:05
Vasia,
I seem to have missed your comment in the traffic here. Repairing a Cargobike box is quite tricky because they’re grooved and glued, and then held together with tiny screws. But a replacement box isn’t expensive. We usually have them in stock for about €200 including VAT.
Turning a Cargobike into a trike isn’t possible. Only the rear section of the frame and some of the parts are the same. The entire front of the bike is different.
August 24th, 2011 at 10:02
Hi Henry,
I presume you are at ‘info@workcycles.com’? I fired you an email a day or two ago, keen to get a quote for NuVinci 360 hub (36h in silver), and also for a full wheel build on the same hub with ‘Rigida’ rim (or similar) in silver, suitable for a FF 996 bakfiets. It has magura rim brakes on it. To be sent to NZ. Please let me know. thanks Edward
August 24th, 2011 at 14:44
Thank you very much for your answer…
But unluckily someone stole my bakfiets 3 days ago even with a rotten box…
what can i say?
Thanks anyway…
September 19th, 2011 at 20:02
Chain tension?
I would like to know the proper chain tension for the bakfiets. It is making a little sound somewhat like it may be hitting the chain garde. Is there a youTUbe video somewhere to show how to adjust the chain?
A picture/photo? Anything!?
Thanks!
September 22nd, 2011 at 09:32
Anja,
If your chain is hitting the chaincase it’s too loose. Somewhere in these pages I have actually described how to adjust the chain on one of our bikes, but I have absolutely no idea where. A winter project here is putting together many such tutorials and organizing them here: Fixing a flat tire, tensioning a chain, adjusting your saddle…
In the meantime here’s a quick explanation without attempting to go into details:
1. Put bike on centerstand and support it so that rear wheel is in the air and cranks can be turned.
2. Pry open the access hatch of chaincase with a blunt object.
3. Loosen axle nuts and brake reaction arm just enough for axle to move fore and aft
4. Adjust the 10mm axle tug bolts to adjust the chain tension. Don’t overtighten; the chain should never be pulled taught even at the tightest point in the chainring and cog’s rotation. Turn the cranks several times while checking chain tension to be sure.
5. Center wheel using left axle tug.
6. Tighten everything up again.
7. Tighten EVERYTHING up again… even the brake reaction arm strap.
October 3rd, 2011 at 15:20
Tobias and Henry,
I must protest the idea that trikes (i.e. Nihola) are only appealing because of local trends. I’m actually here researching the possibly of getting a 2-wheeler to go with my Nihola, so both Mom and Dad can carry crap when on tour. (Plus daily chores.)
For the record, the Nihola is just delightful for following slow kids on their bikes, or for touring forests on horse or mountain bike trails (that can be some work). I’ve driven it through mud and water, over roots and rocks, up and down curbs. Also it’s been on tours of about 60 km in a day, with kids on board (that can be some work, too).
Anyway, you mentioned the NuVinci hub, are you thinking about offering that sometime? (With the IM70 roller brake?) Also why does the cargo version start at a higher price than the standard bike?
December 27th, 2011 at 18:34
Hi Henry,
Your blog is absolutely wonderful. I was very sorry to read about the robbery, but glad to hear that you nor anyone else was harmed.
On the bakfiet subject, I’m happy to say that we just bought and received our first bakfiet. We ordered it from Bakfiets.nl and had it shipped to us in Italy. Unfortunately, it was not shipped well. The bike was literally just laying across a pallet and wasn’t strapped to anything. Needless to say, the bike arrived with some minor cosmetic damage and problems with the first three gears. We ordered the Shimano 7 and the first three gears keep giving me problems. While pedaling, it doesn’t catch ( the chain) and the pedals slip forward. It also makes a banging sound. We brought it to a bike shop here and they sent us away. It looks like it’s up to us to repair it. Any suggestions?
December 30th, 2011 at 10:57
Ray,
I seem to have overlooked your questions – sorry. It’s been a couple months but here are some responses:
OK, I could see that a trike would be handy to ride together with a tike on a little bike. I do that a lot on the Cargobike, which also works just fine. We often do this on the sidewalk or small paths though, where the much wider Nihola would be a hindrance.
We like the NuVinci hub but for the time being we only offer them as a custom (i.e. expensive handbuilt) option. The only way to purchase them for a reasonable price is to order a couple hundred from China and thus far we just don’t see the market to justify that inventory.
The IM70 rollerbrake has since been replaced by the IM80, same idea with a few improvements. I’ve had these on my own Fr8 for about a year with good results.
Cargo version of the Cargobike you mean? These have special, hand-made boxes which are very expensive to produce, as well as various upgrades as needed to withstand the abuses of commercial users. Basically Cargo Delivery bikes are made to order for the needs of each customer.
December 30th, 2011 at 11:13
Meli,
BTW, singular is “bakfiets” and plural is “bakfietsen”.
You need to contact the dealer who sold the bike to you to solve your bike’s problems. But that wouldn’t have been bakfiets.nl since they only sell to dealers. Workcycles is very careful about packing and shipping and we rarely have our bikes damaged in transport.
But concerning your Shimano Nexus 7 hub: It’s unlikely that the shifting problem has anything to do with the transport damage. To begin with the Nexus 7 isn’t a good hub which is why we don’t sell them. It’s known for its inefficiency, vulnerability and clunky shifting. The newer 8sp is a much better hub in every way except for it’s being more expensive. That’s why we use it and have to charge more for our bikes.
But it should still be possible to get your (new) hub shifting properly. The problem is most likely in the cable; either the tension is incorrect or there is a kink in the inner cable causing friction. If adjusting the cable tension doesn’t fix it somebody will have to open up the cable and see what’s going on. If that doesn’t work there’s a problem inside your hub. Sometimes a careless or unskilled mechanic will tighten the cones too much binding up the internals. That’s pretty easy to fix but beyond that… well, good luck finding somebody in Italy to open an internal gear hub, diagnose the problem properly, fix it and put it all back together again.
Good luck.
January 25th, 2012 at 05:35
I really like the Bakfiets but need to have pedal-assist. My community is very hilly. Is there any news about an electric option? If you are researching I would be willing to test one.
January 25th, 2012 at 13:24
Aly,
I recently wrote about the special electrically assisted bikes we build. You can read it here:
http://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/2011/10/21/workcycles-e-fr8s-really/